tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-576237025105104917.post7214762286991871010..comments2023-03-08T08:56:12.700-08:00Comments on Art of Attack: Honoring our Mother, the BVMArt Sippo:http://www.blogger.com/profile/15193733514828584260noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-576237025105104917.post-12327249448608958252008-06-24T08:13:00.000-07:002008-06-24T08:13:00.000-07:00Ah yes. Protestant whining never stops. They all...Ah yes. Protestant whining never stops. They all think that they are so much smarter than Catholics merely because they have invented new religions that have no connection to Historic Christianity. And of course they also think that no one ever read the Bible until Luther came along.<BR/><BR/>Sorry JP, but you have just proven to me once again that PROTESTantisms are just anti-Catholic rants with no biblical basis whatsoever.<BR/><BR/>Let us read 1Tim 2:5 IN CONTEXT (something that whining prots NEVER do):<BR/><BR/><B>1Ti 2:1 <I>First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men,</I> <BR/>1Ti 2:2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. <BR/>1Ti 2:3 <I>This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,</I> <BR/>1Ti 2:4 <I>WHO DESIRES ALL MEN TO BE SAVED AND TO COME TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH</I> <BR/>1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, <BR/>1Ti 2:6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time. <BR/>1Ti 2:7 For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. <BR/>1Ti 2:8 <I>I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling; </I> <BR/></B><BR/><BR/>This is one of the most important parts of the NT and -- as usual -- prots get the meaning of the passage COMPLETELY wrong.<BR/><BR/>St. Paul is advocating that Christians should make "supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings for all men" even non Christians! In other words we are all called to be mediators for each other and for those who do not know Christ.<BR/><BR/>{BTW, the word for 'thanksgiving' in Greek is <I>Eucharistia</I>, so St. Paul was advising his congregation to offer Mass for the benefit of all men. Doesn't sound very Protestant to me!}<BR/><BR/>Why does St. Paul advocate that we Christians pray for all men? Because Jesus is the sole ULTIMATE mediator between God and man. All access to God goes through him. And so each Christian is to act as a mediator on behalf of all humankind <I> because only we can pray to God through Christ</I>. Non-Christians cannot do this.<BR/><BR/>Now, When it comes to the BVM and the Saints in glory, they too are beseeching God continuously as the Book of Revelation shows us:<BR/><BR/><B>Rev 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; <BR/>Rev 6:10 they cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?" <BR/>Rev 6:11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Rev 7:9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, <BR/>Rev 7:10 and crying out with a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb!" <BR/><BR/>Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; <BR/>Rev 8:4 and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God. <BR/></B><BR/><BR/>And What about the BVM? Is she relegated to the mass of the other saints as just another Christian? NO!! She hold a prominent place in Heaven on her own:<BR/><BR/>"The Woman clothed with the Sun" in Rev 12:1 stands there resplendent in the Divine Temple in Heaven. She "brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations" (Rev 12:5) who was Jesus Christ. This is the BVM, JP. It can be no one else. She stands in a special place in Heaven because of her divine Motherhood.<BR/><BR/>Now no one is saying that Mary or the saints pray to God apart form Christ. They mediate for us THROUGH Christ.<BR/><BR/>So quit proof-texting and actually READ your Bible, JP. <BR/><BR/>And while you are at it, read James 2:24 IN CONTEXT. You will find that it condemns the central Protestant doctrine as heresy. Faith is completed by works and cannot save apart from them. Those who count on faith alone cannot be saved.<BR/><BR/>AND the choice to believe the errors of Luther and Calvin over the truth of God's Inscripturated word will have consequences.<BR/><BR/>I call on you JP to repent of your errors and to come out of the <I>Massa Damnata</I> of the Protestant Lie before it is too late.Art Sippo:https://www.blogger.com/profile/15193733514828584260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-576237025105104917.post-14516654535486857992008-06-23T06:07:00.000-07:002008-06-23T06:07:00.000-07:00As a whining non Roman Catholic, i just have to in...As a whining non Roman Catholic, i just have to interpose (probably in vain) that all depends on what you value more:<BR/>The Bible or<BR/>Tradition<BR/><BR/>While Hebrews 8:6, 9:16 and 12:24 seem to leave room for a "co-mediator" (eventhough there already is a link established between mediator and redemptor), 1 Tim 2:5 abolishes all such fancies:<BR/><BR/>"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus"<BR/><BR/>So what weighs more, the tradition or the bible that limits the amount of mediators to one.<BR/><BR/>Your choice. But as any choice not one with consequencesUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13973231905820900251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-576237025105104917.post-87312418885095027122008-02-21T13:33:00.000-08:002008-02-21T13:33:00.000-08:00Excellent questions. The Church has not come upon...Excellent questions. The Church has not come upon a formulation for "Mediatrix of All Graces" that seems to be JUST right. That is one part reason that I think has held back the dogma being declared in the past.<BR/><BR/>To understand Mary's essential role in salvation, we must remember that the Immaculately conceived Mother of God was the necessary pre-condition to the Incarnation. As the Franciscan theologians have pointed out, the Immaculate and the Incarnate Son were predestined together from all eternity. All grace comes from God to man through the mediation of Jesus Christ. He is the sole mediator between God and man. God has not chosen to save anyone apart from Him. Jesus Christ comes to the human race through Mary and only through Mary. The only way to exclude Mary is by trying to find another way to God apart from the Incarnation. She is "our tainted nature's solitary boast." <BR/><BR/>It was Mary who mediated humanity to Christ from the moment of his conception. She possessed the closest human relationship to him. She was his first teacher and would remain for him the model of who and what a human being should be.<BR/><BR/>I do not think it is at all far-fetched to say that while Jesus went to the cross for the sake of all mankind, he went there first and foremost for Mary, his true mother. He wanted to bring her to Heaven with him and share the divine nature with her as she had shared her human nature with him.<BR/><BR/>When you see it in that light, you realize that we are to be like Mary: joined to Christ in an intimate relationship of mutual self-donation. But this is not an individual relationship, but a communal one. We are not merely united to Christ but also to the rest of his body, the Church. The single common family link that we all share is Mary, Mother of the Church and of Christians.<BR/><BR/>You cannot have God as your Father and Jesus as your brother if you do not have Mary as your mother.<BR/><BR/>Knowing this, there is no grace we receive that Mary has not received. There is nothing good that comes from God to mankind that does not involve Mary. If Jesus is the head of the body, Mary is the neck.<BR/><BR/>Some people get very upset by this as if it robs God of his prerogative to deal with his creatures. But we are talking about the graces of salvation that come to us from Christ. None of these graces ever comes to individuals in isolation. They are granted <I>through</I> the body to individuals for the <I>body</I>. All grace is in that sense communal. <BR/><BR/>As such, the mediation of Mary as the one link between Jesus and mankind is the way that God chose to save us. His graciousness comes to us in and through the Incarnation and from no other source. The graces therefrom come to us through the Church. But ultimately the Incarnation comes to mankind through Mary who is the Church's first and greatest member.<BR/>ArtArt Sippo:https://www.blogger.com/profile/15193733514828584260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-576237025105104917.post-72520552343245184522008-02-17T15:48:00.000-08:002008-02-17T15:48:00.000-08:00I tend to agree with Pope Benedict's past statemen...I tend to agree with Pope Benedict's past statements that this dogma is not a necessary one to declare. The Co-Redemtrix title is implied already through the Church's many other statements on our Blessed Mother. Of course if the Church decides otherwise I will gladly accept it. If we are to understand Our Blessed Mother as the "Mediatrix of all Graces", does this imply that God cannot or will not extend graces outside of her? If we look at this objectively, did Jesus extend grace directly from Himself when He walked this earth healing people etc, or are we to conclude that those graces came through her as well? I can see a symbolic extension of Jesus' grace coming through her in the sense that she is the Mother of God, and she brought him into this world through the incarnation. But does that mean that all graces after that that go through her as well? Any thoughts?James Bellisariohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01786370386909499672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-576237025105104917.post-71760982076477438892008-02-15T18:36:00.000-08:002008-02-15T18:36:00.000-08:00Excellent Post Art!I could not agree more. I have...Excellent Post Art!<BR/><BR/>I could not agree more. I have two of Fr. Luigi Gambero's books on our dear Blessed Mother <I>Mary and the Fathers of the Church</I> and <I>Mary in the Middle Ages</I>. <BR/><BR/>Both provide clear and copious evidence of the unique role Mary plays in salvation history and in the Church.<BR/><BR/>I've been know to tell Fundamentalists who rail again my newfound Catholic faith that "they would not be so mean if they'd get to know their Spiritual mommy".<BR/><BR/>Peace this Lent,<BR/><BR/><BR/>BrianInCatholicTruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16441234515344168063noreply@blogger.com